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Prof. JLA
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Fri May 07, 2010 4:22 pm

red u proved that u rn't listening i said post OU or uber and y. u did neither and only posted negative reasons for chomp being OU, and i believe u put its the best physical uber next to rayquaza. which is a lie chomp is a horrible Uber and gets creamed by almost everything.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Fri May 07, 2010 9:28 pm

I never see Garchomp in ubers... I wonder why?
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Fri May 07, 2010 10:54 pm

Well, here is one of my more educated posts. I actually put some thought into this before posting it:
-Garchomp is that weird Pokemon that can easily sit on most Pokemon in OU but, due to its typing and nearly below average defenses, Garchomp can be easily defeated... if you are prepared.
Let's look at Garchomp's weaknesses.
-Its Dragon/Water typing may look amazing at first, negating all its Ground weaknesses: except for Ice.
Garchomp, like many other Dragon Sweepers, are 4x weak to Ice. That means, if you have any Ice moves, you have only 492 more Pokemon to be able to Wall.
Garchomp is also weak to Dragon, but is strong against Dragon. So we'll just leave that to that.
But, as I think JLA said, Garchomp does NOT need to have an Ice Shard coming at it to kill it.
Lets look at Garchomp's Defenses.
So what CAN Garchomp do?
In Ubers? Nothing. Sand Veil and Spe wont get you nowhere.
Sand Veil: LOL what kind of newfag relies on accuracy to win? even so, you have to waste a move for Sandstorm, which also negates the ability for any Choice Item, OR YOU WASTE A WHOLE FUCKING POKEMON (TTAR).
Spe: You have Soul Dew Latios, which is regulary equiped with Thunderbolt for Kyogre.
Garchomp, I think, should be taken out of Ubers. It can be Walled, and it is not much used. It should go with the other x4 Ice-Weakness-ers, like Salamence.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Fri May 07, 2010 11:12 pm

Red wrote:
Well, here is one of my more educated posts. I actually put some thought into this before posting it:
-Garchomp is that weird Pokemon that can easily sit on most Pokemon in OU but, due to its typing and nearly below average defenses, Garchomp can be easily defeated... if you are prepared.
Let's look at Garchomp's weaknesses.
-Its Dragon/Water typing may look amazing at first, negating all its Ground weaknesses: except for Ice.
Garchomp, like many other Dragon Sweepers, are 4x weak to Ice. That means, if you have any Ice moves, you have only 492 more Pokemon to be able to Wall.
Garchomp is also weak to Dragon, but is strong against Dragon. So we'll just leave that to that.
But, as I think JLA said, Garchomp does NOT need to have an Ice Shard coming at it to kill it.
Lets look at Garchomp's Defenses.
So what CAN Garchomp do?
In Ubers? Nothing. Sand Veil and Spe wont get you nowhere.
Sand Veil: LOL what kind of newfag relies on accuracy to win? even so, you have to waste a move for Sandstorm, which also negates the ability for any Choice Item, OR YOU WASTE A WHOLE FUCKING POKEMON (TTAR).
Spe: You have Soul Dew Latios, which is regulary equiped with Thunderbolt for Kyogre.
Garchomp, I think, should be taken out of Ubers. It can be Walled, and it is not much used. It should go with the other x4 Ice-Weakness-ers, like Salamence.

The dragon weakness isn't negated by being strong against dragon due to the large amount of non-dragons carrying dragon attacks. Tyranitar isn't a waste of a pokemon neither in Hippowdon. Choice sets for Garchomp don't carry sandstorm nor should any Garchomp set carry it. Sand Veil is actually an amazing ability when you have a substitute. It allows Garchomp to get more hits in.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Fri May 07, 2010 11:36 pm

Well, if you don't neccessarily WANT Ttar in the team, that's when it is a waste. but ttar is ownage in any other case, you're right.
Sand Veil IS amazing, its just that its sometimes a waste of a move to get it in.
my point was, garchomp OU cause it can be walled like hell.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sat May 08, 2010 12:24 am

It can also be hard to wall and be a bulky hitter and be annoying when it has a sub. Also, apparently bright powder is legal. It will be a good addition to OU but too many people are gonna b|tch and moan about it
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sat May 08, 2010 1:22 am

Prof. O Mighty Nips wrote:
It can also be hard to wall and be a bulky hitter and be annoying when it has a sub. Also, apparently bright powder is legal. It will be a good addition to OU but too many people are gonna b|tch and moan about it
when did bright powder become legal nips?
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sat May 08, 2010 1:40 am

Read up over at Smogon.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sat May 08, 2010 6:48 pm

Garchomp will be sacrificing Spe with Powder so ScarfLatias and other ScarfedMons can get at it. But yeah, PowderSubChomp is a bitch.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sat May 08, 2010 10:09 pm

powdersubchomp can still have speed evs
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sun May 09, 2010 10:29 am

it can have spe evs just saying its sacrificing choice scarf
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sun May 09, 2010 10:52 am

With its speed you don't really need to scarf it. Plus, if you do get out sped you have the substitute to protect yourself for at least a hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sun May 09, 2010 1:54 pm

What if they get killed before they use Sub?
-Salamence Outspeeds
-ParaDance Nite outspeeds
-AgiliGross outspeeds
-Latias outspeeds
alot of pokemon outspeed it.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sun May 09, 2010 2:35 pm

Green wrote:
What if they get killed before they use Sub?
-Salamence Outspeeds
-ParaDance Nite outspeeds
-AgiliGross outspeeds
-Latias outspeeds
alot of pokemon outspeed it.

gross would have to have an agility up to out speed so y would u send chomp out when it might agility.
latias would have to either have specs or calm mind to kill chomp for sure.
mence doesn't out speed unless its or has a dragon dance up.
and dnite has to have scarf or a dragon dance up.
all these things can be scouted for so they shouldn't be a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sun May 09, 2010 3:13 pm

Thanks for taking care of the response JLA.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sun May 09, 2010 6:26 pm

Prof. JLA wrote:
gross would have to have an agility up to out speed so y would u send chomp out when it might agility.
latias would have to either have specs or calm mind to kill chomp for sure.
mence doesn't out speed unless its or has a dragon dance up.
and dnite has to have scarf or a dragon dance up.
all these things can be scouted for so they shouldn't be a problem.

Gross-Scarf Gross outspeeds all Jolly Chomp sets excluding Scarf Chomp. From a Jolly Scarf Metagross Chomp takes 98.3% - 116.2% from Ice Punch. Scarf Metagross standardly has Ice Punch or Explosion so it always KOs with SR up or can get screwed over by the RNG. Another common move on a Scarf Metagross is Trick...he'll outspeed, lock it into a move, assuming EQ, and taking the standard LO or Band away makes Chomp's EQ do 86.4% - 102.3%. SR helps out Chomp alot...but still has a chance to not OHKO and you can send in a Flying/Levitator/anyone who can take a Jolly Scarf EQ from Chomp and set up for a sweep.

Latias-Timid LO Dragon Pulse does 108.9% - 129.1%. Lefties Timid with NO S.Att. EVs Draco Meteor does 130.7% - 154.2%. One Calm Mind on an offencive Latias does 125.7% - 148%, no Calm Minds does 84.4% - 99.4% so OHKO with SR. Then Specs any Special Dragon Move is a OHKO.

Mence/DNite-Not the best counters...but they can get the job done. DNite can do around half with Extreme Speed...so you just need to do around 1/2 damage to Chomp then Extreme Speed for the KO. Physically Bulky Mence with an Intimidate on Chomp takes 97.5% - 114.7% from a banded Outrage...so assuming no SR and a bit of luck you can deal some damage. If it takes the Chomp move he could either do Outrage to do 97.8% - 115.6% and hope for some luck without SR or DD Sweep. Any Scarf/DD of the two is enough aswell. Big disadvantage is they can't take a hit too well to DD up.

Just a few lost points to consiter.

Monkey

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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Sun May 09, 2010 7:54 pm

wasn't covering all the possibilities monkey just the one that he said would make it impossible to sub up
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Tue May 11, 2010 10:54 pm

my cousin told me they are thinking of making salamance an uber?is it true?
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Tue May 11, 2010 11:01 pm

sasori89 wrote:
my cousin told me they are thinking of making salamance an uber?is it true?

I don't see a reason to do so. Yes, Salamence works wonders in Ubers... but Salamence isn't too powerful for OU.
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Tue May 11, 2010 11:08 pm

Smogon has actually slightly discussed Mence for Ubers. It isn't Over Powered in OU, it's based speed is only 100, and it has no speed priority moves. However IF for some stupid reason Smogon becomes a Mence hating site and votes Mence for Ubers, Azelf will be next to discussed.

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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Wed May 12, 2010 3:31 pm

Monkey wrote:
Smogon has actually slightly discussed Mence for Ubers. It isn't Over Powered in OU, it's based speed is only 100, and it has no speed priority moves. However IF for some stupid reason Smogon becomes a Mence hating site and votes Mence for Ubers, Azelf will be next to discussed.

Monkey

I saw discussion of this, but it's not going anywhere.

As for Garchomp, you think we can suspect test him?
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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Wed May 12, 2010 7:06 pm

Well Nips we have two choices.
A) Just vote based off of what was said here.
B) Test Chomp in the standard battle phase then vote.

Monkey

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PostSubject: Re: Garchomp   Wed May 12, 2010 10:38 pm

See, what's said is said. What looks good on paper may not be good in reality. (communism) Only way to truly know is by applying it to reality.
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