Latias

I guess I'll try to get us to change around the tiers a bit so we can have it as we like it. First pokemon I'd like to bring up for discussion is Latias. =)

Pokémon Name: Latias

Tier List: Standard

Current Tier: OU

What Tier You Would Like To See It In: Uber

Why: Latias, i feel, should be in Uber. I'll mention why I feel Latias should be on Uber, with 252 HP, 252 Defence, and a Bold nature a Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch is a 3 hit KO. U-Turn can KO in two hits, but Scizor leaves the fight, so you'll need a counter when Latias could possibly Recover. If your running a Swords Dance, you'll need two Sword Dances to get a CHANCE of Bullet Punch KOing Latias in one hit, might still be a close 2HKO. A Tyranitar will need the RNG to go his way for a Choice Band one to KO Latias in one hit, as would one Dragon Dance. Two Dragon Dances is when you can finally confirm the KO in one hit. As for offencive power against a Tyranitar, she can KO it in two hits without any Special Attack EV's. So if it's a Dragon Dance, Latias gets the first hit as you set up, and the KO as you cripple Tyranitar. Scizor is KO'd in one hit by a Hidden Power Fire, unless you have no Special Attack EV's AND get screwed by the RNG. Surf you'll need a Calm Mind to be able to two hit KO Scizor...but Scizor, as said above, has trouble KOing Latias in two turns.
As for how well Latias can last in Uber. It has a base S.Def. of 130, and majority of the Ubers are Special Attackers. It managed to do well in Ubers for a Generation. Granted it can't HOKO Fett, but with Trick and CM it can cripple it or stall till it can OHKO.
Specs Latias is broken aswell. 350 Speed with its naturally high defenses and typing means it has plenty of opportunities to switch-in, and plenty of opportunities to soak up damage. Yes, it's countered by Weavile and Tyranitar, but who ever said it was to one-shot an entire person's team? Any intelligent battler would have counters for them, and neither of them are very hard to counter (nearly any Fighting attack deals with both of them). The max Defense set is extremely.

Just a reminder on how this works. Anyone now can voice their opinion. If the members post swing one direction it will go to that tier. If the post are spit...we'll create a poll for it.

Monkey

Monkey

hmm i dont feel as if latios is very usable in the uber tier where most attacks are dragon. It may have great defenses in the ou but im a little weary about moving it up a tier, mabye we could move it up to ubers for a week or two and see how it functions. I just dont want a great pokemon to become unusable in a tier it may not function in

I don't think Latias should be Uber at all. True that he is a strong OU pokemon but many pokemon can kill it with a simple ice attack. I've been walled several times by Registeel with Toxic and it kills no matter what. Latias is fine where its is the stats aren't out of control and with hardly any good dragons in standard battling this is one of the few good ones. I vote nay!

even if he's not a good uber he's still too strong for ou. wobbeffet sucks in uber yet its one anyway

latias is good, but like i've said b4 if latias goes so does BLISSEY!!! considering how much she can absorb plus softboil. with blissey still in the OU tier latias is evenly match if not at a disadvantage. blissey can toxic stall latias until its dead, or use a CM set and kick it ass with ice beam. so there r still other counters besides the main ttar and scizor to consider.

latias took a super effective hit from a spec'd alakazam and survived with more than half health

Action Hank wrote:

latias took a super effective hit from a spec'd alakazam and survived with more than half health

ok kurugi lets get things settles first of all, it took the hit and it did more than half damage. the only reason y it survived is because i CM and took the signal beam, i barely survived the second one and was able to recover. and back to the very begining the only reason y it lived is because its eved with max hp and sp def instead of sp atk and spe. so it isn't as stong as u think it is. if u had ttar with crunch it would've been ohko.
also note monkey the set u mentioned above can be 2hko by a specs alakazam. and a normal offensive latias would need 2 CM to 2HKO alakazam or 3 CM to OHKO.

either way i dont care if it's uber or ou

Latias is fine in OU. It has appreciable counters and most commonly runs offensive sets.

Poseidon wrote:

I don't think Latias should be Uber at all. True that he is a strong OU pokemon but many pokemon can kill it with a simple ice attack. I've been walled several times by Registeel with Toxic and it kills no matter what. Latias is fine where its is the stats aren't out of control and with hardly any good dragons in standard battling this is one of the few good ones. I vote nay!

What Ice attack beats Latias? Unless your running Choice Specs/Band with Modest/Adamant natures. But then again, 99% of the teams on wifi that use Latias bring atleast one pokemon who can take those Ice Attacks. So it shouldn't be Uber because there is one type that with Choice Items it can't take? What Ice Attacks can Chomp take? What electric attack can Manaphy take? What fighting move can Darkari take? What Ice attack can Sky-Shaymin take? According to your theory, those pokes, and others, should all be placed into OU. Secondly, Latias can take out most, if not all of the pokes, who can learn some good Ice moves.

Prof. JLA wrote:

latias is good, but like i've said b4 if latias goes so does BLISSEY!!! considering how much she can absorb plus softboil. with blissey still in the OU tier latias is evenly match if not at a disadvantage. blissey can toxic stall latias until its dead, or use a CM set and kick it ass with ice beam. so there r still other counters besides the main ttar and scizor to consider.

I guess you haven't heard of Refreash. Latias can easily stop his toxic stall weakness. The fact that Latias has more options in it's sets than Bliss puts it in a higher class than Bliss. It can be a Trickster, overall wall, Special Wall, CM Special Wall, Specs Sweeper, Scarf Sweeper, Dual Screener, Wish Passer, Sub CM, Physical Sweeper, Mix Sweeper and so on. All Blissey can do is be a Wall, CMer, or Support. As for T-Tar and Scizor...read my first post.

Prof. Monk wrote:

Latias is fine in OU. It has appreciable counters and most commonly runs offensive sets.

So because it's commonly used Offencive Sets, the few who use it to it's true potential get to used an over powered pokemon? As I have always dislike Smogon for is that they make their tiers based on usage, not actual talent of the pokemon.

Monkey

monkey first off if latias has refresh it won't have recover so and if it has both that means it either has CM and surf or dragon pulse(more than likely dragon pulse cause of the stab) or just surf and dragon pulse. if latias doesn't have CM the point of this dragon is useless so that would leave it with dragon pulse which scizor can resist. as for chomp, sky-shaymin, and manaphy u know i think they should be OU. atleast chomp and sky-shaymin with no argument.

Latias should be an Uber, with 252 HP, 252 Defence,

That set is destroyed by Specs starmie, gengar, rotom, alakazam, among a few. Think about it. You either sacrifice offensive capabilities or defensive ones, or you go "in between" and end up making both mediocre. There are plenty of ways to counter latias. I know the current metagame better than most of you, so heed the advice. Latias is OU.

Okay, whoa, whoa. I thought Pokemon was supposed to be an intense challenging battle where it is diffucult to succeed, even for the one with the Latias. I took a good look at all the OU stats in Smogon and I saw something very common in all of them: they either have 1 really good stat--Blissey or a bumch of good stats--Zapdos. That can only mean one thing: People can't think of an unique way to attack with UU Pokemon so they just grab some OU Pokemon, something with stats like Alakazam or Tyranitar or Latias and a Smogon moveset and then they think they own! You guys are looking too deep into it. The real ownage is a Crobat with Toxic then U-Turn to a super effc. Pokemon. That is ownage! I think all OU pokemon with good stats and a very obvious moveset like Latias and Blissey should be Uber. That way you HAVE to be creative, not just some obvious Nasty Plot Azef.

Latias should stay in ou

why?: my cradily in a sandstorm can out stall it, use a physical attacker like weavile w/ pursuit, toxic is a bitch and any ice move should do

You make a point. Many Pokemon can learn Ice and Dragon moves that are not neccessarliy Ice and Dragon type Pokemon and Latias doesn't expect that... still you can have the ultimate Wall with Protect, Recover, Taunt, and Dragon Claw can prevent Toxic and heal from a lot of other moves.

Wait, why did I say we need to be creative for Pokemon? A Ttar Scizor Latias alakazam bronzong metagross etc. Team is pretty stupid but a whole team of NUs is also retarded. Hypocritically, I had a Latios in my Emerald team, refusing it to be Uber.

latias is uber, deemed by smogon

O Mighty Nips wrote:

use a physical attacker like weavile w/ pursuit, toxic is a bitch and any ice move should do

^No Ice move can OHKO it. Plus it learns Refreash to loose Toxic.^

Monkey

CB Ice Fang from Mamoswine.

My max Def. and HP set is only 67.6% - 79.7% from a CB Ice Shard. Grass Knot, Surf, or HP(Fire), with max damage for Hidden Power...it's 46% - 54.3%, is a two hit KO. The odds are that they won't be out for the first turn at the same turn. I'd assume that Latias is out first and Mamo comes out to counter. Grass Knot is a OHKO after 1 CM, Surf is 93.1% - 109.7% after one CM, and HP(Fire) is 68.7% - 80.9%. This is all assuming my Bold + Max HP + Max Def. So without any S.Att. EV's and a nature that doesn't boost it's S.Att. it can still take down it's counters.

Monkey

I said ICE FANG.

Dragon Claw, OHKO, Ice Fang OKHO, Ice Punch OHKO, Bite OHKO

*Fang at my last post. Lol. My calacs are with Ice Fang, for whatever reason I said Shard.

Monkey

HTML Documents Proprietor wrote:

O Mighty Nips wrote:

use a physical attacker like weavile w/ pursuit, toxic is a bitch and any ice move should do

^No Ice move can OHKO it. Plus it learns Refreash to loose Toxic.^

Monkey

again monkey latias can't have both recover and refresh on its set to be successful, so if it has refresh there isn't a problem cause it won't be able to recover the damage from pokes like scizor and ttar. and if it has recover it won't survive toxic stall.

Latias is uber according to smogon.

wow any gengar can own with Curse Stall
Hypnosis
Curse
Mean Look
Taunt-wait, can gengar learn taunt.... im pretty sure
Hypnosis first to make sure latias doesn't use a simple OHKO Dragon Claw
Mean Look will prevent it from switching out when it gets Cursed
And latias isn't a problem